Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/pc/text/spacedig/v16_0/v16no082.txt

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Date: Wed, 27 Jan 93 05:05:12
From: Space Digest maintainer <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Subject: Space Digest V16 #082
To: Space Digest Readers
Precedence: bulk


Space Digest                Wed, 27 Jan 93       Volume 16 : Issue 082

Today's Topics:
 Andres's Tirade (was Re: 2001/2010 Rocket Engines - What are they?)
                    Apollo Program photos (2 msgs)
Earth's rotation rate may be due to early collisions [Release 93-12] (Forwarded)
                         Handling Antimatter
                        JPL Anonymous FTP Site
                    Mir mission to Mars? (2 msgs)
                          Scientists' Deaths
                        Shuttle safety margins
        Smithsonian videodisks (was Re: Apollo Program photos)
                        Soviet space disaster
                           Soyuz as an ACRV
                     Status of future Mir modules
                  THE DIVINE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE

    Welcome to the Space Digest!!  Please send your messages to
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 93 11:18:21 -0600
From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey <[e-mail]>
Subject: Andres's Tirade (was Re: 2001/2010 Rocket Engines - What are they?)
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Andres C. Gaeris) writes:
> Well, considering the current public and governmental attitude to expensive
> new space programs plus what is going worldwide with the space agencies,
> the _Forbidden Planet_ writers were not really off of the mark.
> I do not believe that Bill or I will reach the Moon in the next century

 Well, we're sure not gonna do it in this one...

> (except for some really good breakthroughs in longevity and geriatrics) and
> sure that Bill and I carry a good quantity of Mankind around 8-)!

Andres, we need to reduce launch cost-per-pound!

> I fell like Mankind will not reach the Moon and the planets in a really
> effective way till the end of the next century. The beginning of the next
> century will be for PC technologies, 'ecologic'-cleansing, and New-Age
> illiterates trying to subvert science and technology to their own pervert
> agenda.

Ooh, flame fodder if I ever saw any!  I sure hope you're not right...
but you might be.

> Sorry about this tirade. It is the result of reading three times 'Fallen
> Angels' and seeing around what is going on with S&T policy.

This novel has been proven by doctors to be bad for your mental
health.

> (Next tirade: _How the U.N./Green technological police forced me to leave
> Physics and go back to administer my family's convinience store_)

Is this real, or are you dreaming about *Fallen Angels* again?  It
would  be a great loss to North American science if you did.

Bill Higgins, Beam Jockey              | "Enough marshmallows
Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory  | will kill you
Bitnet:           [e-mail]  | if properly placed."
Internet:       [e-mail]  | --John Alexander, leader of
SPAN/Hepnet:           43011::HIGGINS  | "disabling technologies"
 [*Aviation Week*, 7 Dec 1992, p. 50]  | research, Los Alamos

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993  13:38 edt
From: Roger Wilfong <[e-mail]>
Subject: Apollo Program photos
Newsgroups: sci.space

In Article <[e-mail]> "[e-mail] (George Gassaway) " says:
> I am currently researching Apollo-7 for the purposes of creating and
> documenting detailed drawings of the Saturn-IB launch vehicle. This is for
> the purpose of building detailed scale models.
>
> [deleted stuff]
>
>
> I know that NASA created some videodiscs about 10 years ago or so that
> catalogued thousands and thousands of photos, I think one disc was
> dedicated to the Apollo program itself. I would like to obtain such a disc
> to be able to go through it photo by photo to locate the kinds that would
> be useful, assuming that the photos on ths video disc did include the
> photo number for each, then I could use those numbers to get good quality
> 8 x 10 photographs printed by the appropriate NASA photocontractor.

I too am researching Apollo with similar intentions; however, my interest is
in SA-6 and SA-7 (Saturn I, Block 2).  I too would be interested in the disc
to which George refers.

Or if any one has photos (and/or photo numbers) I'd appreciate the info.

Specifically I am looking for:

 Details of the H2 vent plumbing on the outside of the interstage and
 associated aerodynamic fairings on the S4.

 Exterior markings on the S4 and the adapter between the S4 and the
 instrumentation module.

 Details of the boiler plate capsule.

Unfortunately all of the photos I have of this detail are copy stand prints
lacking the reference numbers and too many generations old to be useful if
they were blown up.

Thanks.
- Roger

PS.  So that's what you're working on for NARAM, George.
     Tired of LJ-II's?  :-)


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 20:03:15 GMT
From: Edmund Hack <arabia!hack>
Subject: Apollo Program photos
Newsgroups: sci.space

George - email me your site's IP number (or your CIS ID) - I have a few
pointers I'd like to email to you.  Our mailer can't resolve your
address.

--
Edmund Hack - Lockheed Engineering & Sciences Co. - Houston, TX
[e-mail] - I speak only for myself, unless blah, blah..
"I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV."
"Detail Dress Circuits" "Belt: Above A, Below B" "Close B ClothesMode"

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 20:25:35 GMT
From: fred j mccall 575-3539 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Earth's rotation rate may be due to early collisions [Release 93-12] (Forwarded)
Newsgroups: sci.space

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Larry Wall) writes:

>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Bruce Watson) writes:
>: In article <[e-mail]| [e-mail] (Ray Davis) writes:
>: ||     "A popular theory holds that the collision of a Mars-sized planetary
>: || body with the Earth threw considerable debris into orbit, which then came
>: || together to form the moon," Dones said.  "Thus, the same impact which gave
>: || Earth its spin, could also have formed the moon."
>: |
>: |How does this popular theory account for the moon having zero spin?
>: |
>: The moon rotates once a month, otherwise it wouldn't keep the same
>: face to the earth.
>:
>: The "lock" occurred due to tidal friction and took a long time to happen.

>Nevertheless, I don't know of any evidence that Moon ever did have much
>of a spin (relative to the "lock").  The fact that the back side of the
>Moon is so different from the front side would tend to argue against it.

>But to answer what I believe to be the original question, the apparent
>inconsistency of a collision giving spin to the Earth but not to the
>Moon is resolved easily.  The Earth and the Collider were already
>formed at the time.  Since they were both sizeable, it's statistically
>likely (but not certain) that after the collision the Earth would be
>left with a significant spin, just as football player getting tackled
>is likely to have his attitude adjusted, so to speak.

>Now here's the key to the conundrum.  The Collider, according to
>theory, *pulverized* both itself and a bunch of the Earth's crust and
>mantle, throwing lots of little rocks into orbit around Earth, but no
>Really Big Ones.  These eventually accreted into the Moon.  Since
>there's lots of little rocks coming from every which a way, however,
>it's statistically unlikely that the Moon would end up with a large
>residual spin, just as a football player doesn't expect to be suddenly
>upset by the air molecules that are pounding him constantly from every
>direction (in the absence of tornadoes).

Isn't there geological evidence that shows that Earth and Moon formed
(were not molten, which I would expect accretion of a body the size of
the moon to result in -- gravitational energy) at the same time?
Theat seems to me to be a death blow to any such theories of
catastrophic formation of the moon (if what I'm remembering is
correct).


--
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[e-mail] - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 93 20:03:43 GMT
From: Sam Warden <[e-mail]>
Subject: Handling Antimatter
Newsgroups: sci.space

[e-mail] (Pat) writes:

>Is it possible instead of using Buckminsterfullerene to contain an
>antiproton to use tetrane (C4H4 )  or cubane (C8H8)?  given the lower
>dalton numbers,  the enerfy density would be real high.  also
>given that these molecules are less stable,  it should be easier
>to liberate the energy when needed.

Far too easy, I'm thinking.  All these ideas for chemically-caged
antimatter amount to nuclear _primary_ explosives.  If we ever
get to where we can make this in bulk I expect it would be too
hazardous to use as a high-energy-density material, even in a
bomb!  Very _very_ dilute, it might be useful in the laborato
or as `bottled muons' for catalyzed fusion.

--

[e-mail] (Sam Warden) -- and not a mere Device.


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 14:29:29 GMT
From: Ed McCreary <[e-mail]>
Subject: JPL Anonymous FTP Site
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary

>>>>> On Mon, 25 Jan 1993 15:35:14 -0500 , Lawrence Curcio <[e-mail]> said:

LC> All very nice, but I have a calendar with most of the same stuff. Also,
LC> whatever happened to the :) on Mars?

Actually there is a "happy face" on Mars.  Not the face Hoagland
is going on about but one that looks like a smiley.  I have the data
around here somewhere.  If anyone is interested I could post it
to one of the binarie groups or upload it to ames.  Is the new
JPL site taking submissions or is it only for material from JPL?
--
Ed McCreary                                               ,__o
[e-mail]                                   _-\_<,
"If it were not for laughter, there would be no Tao."  (*)/'(*)

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 16:28:26 GMT
From: Darwin O'Connor <doconno@pollux>
Subject: Mir mission to Mars?
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> from [Mon, 25 Jan 1993 19:45:17 GMT] you wrote:
> In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>
> > The mission you mention is technically feasible, with some risks to the crew
> > that others here will certainly elaborate upon.
>
> ....more info on the subject. I first learned about this from Frank
> Miles'/Nicholas Booth's RACE TO MARS: THE HARPER & ROW MARS FLIGHT ATLAS

  [stuff deleted]

> > The major obstacle is money. The Russians don't have it, and the US is not
> > going to fund Russians exploration of Mars.
> >
> > However, if the Finn government were to provide sufficient funding, I'm sure a
> > human flight to Mars could be arranged.
> >
> The superpowers should finance it, it probably would cost about as much as an
> Apollo lunar mission. It would provide a boost to space programs not only in

> Russia but also in the west. Mars has always had a special hold on the
> imagination, and I am sure there would be a lot of interest for the mission.
> Particularly in Russia. The Soviets were very proud of their achievements in
> space, seeing their excellent space program grounded due to lack of financial
> support from the West hurts their pride almost as much as the fall of the
> Soviet empire. The extremist hardliners there will not find it difficult to
> convince the average Russian that the westerners are to blame for this
> "Dolchstuss in Space."
>
> > --- Maximus 2.01wb
>
> MARCU$

I herd a report on the news (I don't remember by who or where) that Russians
view thier space program as a waste of money.

Darwin O'Connor
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:19:18 GMT
From: Marcus Lindroos INF <[e-mail]>
Subject: Mir mission to Mars?
Newsgroups: sci.space

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

> >    A flyby mission would require a total delta-V of the same magnitude as the
> > mission outlined above, or about 5km/s for the Proton stage.
>
> Sorry to be dense, but in this context does "flyby" mean not
> even properly *orbiting* Mars, perhaps to take a pick-axe to
> Phobos and Deimos, but rather merely sailing on by ?

Exactly. An orbital mission would require an additional 220 ton rocket stage
(=one more launch by Mir) and would prolong the mission by up to two years.

> > > However, if the Finn government were to provide sufficient funding, I'm sure a
> > > human flight to Mars could be arranged.
>
> This will happen only is it can be repackaged as a support plan
> for the farmers.  Perhaps with enough hydroponics on board ..
>
Yup. Our farmers get 71% of their income from the state - not from selling farm
products.

MARCU$

> --
> * Fred Baube         ..when you think your Toys  you hear Laughter
> * Optiplan O.Y.           * have gone Berserk    cracking through the Walls
> * [e-mail]       * it's an illUsion     you're sent Spinning
> * GU/MSFS                 * you Cannot Shirk     you Have No Choice
> * #include <disclaimer.h> *                 -- Sioux proverb
> * Where is the follow-on  * Everybody has a right to be stupid, but some
> *       to P.G.P. ??      *    people abuse the privilege -- Josef Stalin

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 19:37:04 GMT
From: fred j mccall 575-3539 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Scientists' Deaths
Newsgroups: sci.space

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>Several years ago (don't ask me how many) there were *several* postings,
>including excerpts from British newspapers, about the spate of "suicides" and
>"accidental deaths" of British space scientists in comp.risks.  If anybody is
>really interested in doing the research, instead of just sarcastically
>dismissing them as crackpot conspiracy fodder, they can look it up in the
>Risks archive.

I remember hearing this particular conspiracy theory years ago, back
when it had nothing to do with space.  Something about people employed
at a TS research facility for communications decryption -- the UK
version of the NSA.  Just because something is from across the Pond
doesn't mean that it didn't start with conspiracy theorists over
there.



--
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[e-mail] - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 18:30:16 GMT
From: fred j mccall 575-3539 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Shuttle safety margins
Newsgroups: sci.space

In <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Pat) writes:

>    my problem with the shuttle is that they used Military safety amrgins.
>    Now when one flys a 747, one does not usually put the vehicle
>    past 1.25 G.  The vehicle is rated for 4 Gs.  The failure limit
>    is around 6 Gs.   99% of the time you will be below 1.25 Gs.
>    an emergency manuever may require you to pull 4 Gs,  everytthing
>    is sized for this.  if something unusual occurs you can exceed
>    the limit.  Hence 747's have ridden out hurricanes and supersonic
>    dives.

>    Now an F-15  is rated for 9 Gs.  THe pilots will routinely
>    pull 9 Gs.  but at 10 Gs, structural damage is assumed
>    and the vehicle is overhauled.  Now F-15 pilots will
>    pull these high G forces in Training,  in operations,
>    in Combat and in emergencies.

I have to question this.  I don't have figures handy for the F-15
airframe, but a historical note may give a slightly clearer picture on
"Military safety margins" (if my memory isn't flawed).  The rated
plus-g for the F-4 was something like 5 g.  Pilots in Southeast Asia
almost routinely did 8-g manuevers when avoiding flak, etc., because
going outside the envelope was better than being shot down.  I don't
know of any aircraft that went down from structural failure, and I
would expect that if that had happened it would have been widely
publicized in the anti-war press of the day.

I would suspect that you would have more serious problems than
g-induced structural damage if you did 10-g manuevers in an F-15,
since you have almost assuredly exceeded the g-tolerance of the
wetware.  In point of fact, there have (apparently) been instances of
near-instantaneous GLoC which resulted in loss of aircraft in F-16s
doing 9-g pull-ups.  Structural damage from g loading ceased to be
much of a problem if the aircraft impacts dirt.  I also assume we're
not talking about jolt, but about sustained manuever, since I think
planes coming off a cat take higher jolt than 10 g.

--
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[e-mail] - I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 93 13:23:03 -0600
From: Bill Higgins-- Beam Jockey <[e-mail]>
Subject: Smithsonian videodisks (was Re: Apollo Program photos)
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]  (Roger Wilfong) writes:
> In Article <[e-mail]> "[e-mail] (George Gassaway) " says:
>> I am currently researching Apollo-7 for the purposes of creating and
>> documenting detailed drawings of the Saturn-IB launch vehicle.
> I too am researching Apollo with similar intentions; however, my interest is
> in SA-6 and SA-7 (Saturn I, Block 2).  I too would be interested in the disc
> to which George refers.

Oh, well, if there are *two* of you guys out there, there may well be
more, so I shall post this old 1989 article instead of simply mailing
it to Roger and George...

========
I just received a catalog of aviation history books from the Smithsonian
Institution Press.  It includes six videodiscs full of stills at fifty-five
bucks apiece.  I don't have a player, but maybe some readers will be
interested.

"The National Air and Space Museum is reproducing its entire photo archives aon
videodiscs.  Ten discs are currently planned...[these laser NTSC 525-line
discs] can be played on all laser videodisc players."
 Two of the six discs are relevant to students of spaceflight.  Quoting from
the catalog:
============================================================================

Archival Videodisc 6

The Lunar Missions Imagery Disc documents the history of manned and unmanned
lunar missions with over 70,000 images.  The unmanned Ranger, Surveyor, and
Lunar Orbiter missions are represented with a selection of over 6,000
black-and-white images on side A, followed by 23,000 color and black-and-white
images taken by the Apollo astronauts.  Because many of these images were shot
in rapid sequence, they provide an "animated" re-creation of many aspects of
the Apollo missions when played in an auto forward mode.  Each image is
referenced with an index.

Also on Side A are chronologies of American and Soviet lunar missions,
photodocumentaries of lunar explorations, and biographies of the Apollo
astronauts.  Details of lunar mapping are provided as a cross reference to the
Apollo photographs.

Side B stores roughly 47,000 frames of Apollo panoramic photography from Apollo
15, 16, and 17.  A mapping index is provided for Side B.
ISBN: 0-84747-939-5S  $55.00 (Smithsonian members $44.00)

Archival Videodisc 5
[NASA history, U.S. space program, Shuttle Hasselblad photography from STS-1 to
STS-61C.] Index included.
ISBN: 0-84747-936-0S  $55.00 (Smithsonian members $44.00)
======================================================================
The other discs are of interest to aviation buffs:
#1  Aircraft, alphabetical by manufacturer (100,000 images)
#2  More aircraft, personalities, events
#3  USA(A)F through 1954, including 50,000 WWII images
#4  USAF pre-1954, Korea, art collection (Single-sided, 50,000 images)

If you're interested, contact:
Smithsonian Institution Press
Dept. 900
Blue Ridge Summit, PA 17294-0900
[phone]

                        ///        Bill Higgins
   E                   ///
  |8D:O:          occc))))<))      Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory
   E                 ///
                    ///            Bitnet: [e-mail]

Bumper sticker seen on a Soyuz:    SPAN/Hepnet/Physnet: 43011::HIGGINS

 DON'T LAUGH-- IT'S PAID FOR       Internet: [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 93 21:59:00 GMT
From: Bill Edwards <[e-mail]>
Subject: Soviet space disaster
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Dennis Newkirk) writes:

DN>Ah, how well the propaganda works. There was plenty of man on
DN>the moon talk from the Soviets up to 1969, and they weren't talking

It works so well, I'd forgotten all about the earlier man-on-the-moon
bold talk. :-)

Bill / Usenet: [e-mail]
---
 . DeLuxe./386 1.25 #9224 .


------------------------------

Date: 25 Jan 93 21:59:00 GMT
From: Bill Edwards <[e-mail]>
Subject: Soyuz as an ACRV
Newsgroups: sci.space

[e-mail] (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:

>However, several U.S. commercial vendors can supply launchers that
>can easily orbit a Soyuz for a more reasonable price than the shuttle.

Can someone tell me if its the full Soyuz including the orbital module
which is being proposed or a "stripped down" version?

Bill / Usenet: [e-mail]
---
 . DeLuxe./386 1.25 #9224 .


------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1993 21:02:34 GMT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Status of future Mir modules
Newsgroups: sci.space

Does anyone know the status of the Priroda and Spekter modules that have been
slated as the next modules for attachment to Mir?  Last I heard they were
scheduled for launch in late 1992 or early 1993.  I imagine that with the
current economic crisis in Russia money allocated for Mir is tight.  Perhaps
they have been delayed due to the budget.
   Also, I thought an Israeli cosmonaut was supposed to be launched to Mir
aboard Soyuz TM-16.  However, Soyuz TM-16, launched a few days ago, only
contained two Russians.  Has the Israeli flight been cancelled or delayed?
                                                           Nathan Bridges
                                                           Menlo Park, CA

------------------------------

Date: 26 Jan 1993 20:11:39 GMT
From: no one of consequence <[e-mail]>
Subject: THE DIVINE MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

He's BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACK!!

]
]  [deleted whole bunch of the usual drivel]
]
]
]               UN-altered REPRODUCTION and DISSEMINATION of this
]          IMPORTANT Information is ENCOURAGED.
]
]
]                                           Robert E. McElwaine
]                                           2nd Initiate in Eckankar
                                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

  Guess all of those "I know what the 'BS' stands for" quotes finally got
through to him.


And I just took him out of my global kill file last week.

--
/----------------------------------------------------------------------\
|Patrick Chester                             [e-mail]|
|"If the Earth is our Cradle, then why are we still here?"             |
|Everything your side says is Truth. All else is Propaganda....        |
|I only speak for myself. If I *did* speak for UT, would anyone listen?|
\----------------------------------------------------------------------/

------------------------------

End of Space Digest Volume 16 : Issue 082
------------------------------